BEN—End of the year wrap-ups / reflection have never really been something I find myself getting into. For better or worse. I would imagine it's largely driven by the somewhat long lead-times required to create products which has you somewhat perpetually focused on the future, the next thing, etc. That said, I do think it's healthy perhaps to flick through your camera roll, review product launches, zoom out a bit on your past 12 months. Do you find yourself reflecting back on your work much this time of year?

ROTENDA—More so this year for sure! Very needed to start off with this one. I must say the past 12 months roll does call for a reflection. With the things that come with realizing an idea from a PDF or AR, a celebration in having an idea, can go forgotten - and that can be a good thing too. Taking it as a reminder that there could be more. Explorative. Might be the word to sum up the camera roll. 

While still on it, you’ve shared quite a lot of projects this year, though we still laugh at it feeling like little was done. Through your camera roll, what has been a highlight launch for you this year and why? 

BEN—Onto products launched this year. Sculptor's Stand Stool 2.5, Self Portrait Vase (crazy project), Made in Japan 500's No. 2, BEAMS Collaboration, Knock Cardholder, Rubber I-Beams, Cerakote I-Beams, and a handful of restocks. If you had to pick one as the thing that defines our work together, which would you pick?

ROTENDA—I will have to say the Knock Cardholder! It’s probably one product we refined it’s detailing the most. Through design and conversation. It cannot be justified by a particular design process, but the confidence in making something that begs to look different and weigh a few valuable grams extra. I enjoy carrying 2 very often! 

BEN—Hard to not mention the Knock Wallet. It probably should have been my number one pick. When I show it to friends I often remark that it's the most refined of any of the objects I've ever been a part of. Even outside of the Ben Edgar world. You and I started real work on it a year ago I'd say, maybe a little longer? I actually have an Illustrator file I started in like 2022 to explore what a wallet might look like, so it's been a while. Where's your head at on it? Or maybe even more interesting, in another 12 months or even another 5 years, how do you think it will age as a concept?

ROTENDA—It’s hard not to drop the line “what an object” and seeing it as a centered compliment/ego. I like to stand on the side where you received the first assembled sample in hand - and in awe of the “weight” of that illustrator file. [Laughter]. It continues to live in my everyday in many ways… in my pocket, hanging off my tote or inside, as an accessory etc. It has grown to be a sculpture I transport into my day - and with that, its form grows into being one of many identifiable Ben Edgar visual motifs. So in 5 years, this to me is a classic. 

Are you still using the Saddle colour one? How’s it aging for you? 

BEN—I am. The metal on mine has a lovely layer of scratches, scuffs, areas of repated wear from being in my pocket with other metal items. I almost switched to the black one the other day.  I actually love teh saddle and black together, similiar to how oyu carry two.

ROTENDA—Circling this question back to you, which would you pick?

BEN—Honesly, almost impossible for me to pick one. The Self Portrait Vase though if I have to. The scale of production, commercial success, etc was incredibly small compared to any of the other objects in even the past 3-4 years, but this seems like such a pure explanation of the Ben Edgar world. When I zoom out, I can take this relatively small item, physically at least, and explain in just a few words and in a few moments the entire ethos of the brand. That's incredibly tricky to do. It was also a classic example of me saying: "oh this will be pretty straightforward to make" and it wasn't at all. [Laughter] I think it took like 3-4 fabricators to get it right. 

Also, the Rubber I-Beams though, while fairly playful and super accessible, were personally really important to me as they represented a totally new manufacturing process that feels like a bit of an unlock for future stuff. One of the magic things about taking an idea in your mind and making it into a physical reality...is that it changes how you view the everyday world around you. With industrial design, I now look at almost anything I touch on a daily basis and either know how it was made or want to know how it was made. There's something incredibly freeing about that. Regardless if the ideas you made real find any form of commercial success, the education and point of view that came from the work stays with you forever. The Rubber I-Beams, being our first truly moulded object at production scale, really gave me that sensation. 

ROTENDA—The Rubber I-Beams are very fascinating to me. I would carry the painted metal one as a hand sculpture. Almost like carrying a building in your hand. It’s an object you’ve realized in varying materials/finish. A study of materials and processes. I can’t help to think of the classic Ben Edgar hanger which you realized in different materials. For objects that aren’t necessarily dependent on the materials they’re made of to perform/function, what in forms the material you choose to study for projects? 

BEN—Actually, forget to mention something launched this year that isn't physical, this Extended Exchange series. Even this was started more than a year ago before it found its legs. It's one of those classic examples of "Why didn't we do this earlier?" While truly great products often need little or no explanation, I do think it's been helpful for even myself to give a bit more insight to the objects and the process to bring them to life. I think we're just scratching the surface of this as a concept. When you're looking to purchase a product, how important is the story of its creation to you?

ROTENDA—It serves the reason. Very important! And I think this is where we get to distinguish between a narrated story (which may come from a marketing department) and that of the creators - which might nod to why a chamfer is there, why this material, why it even exists. I think it is the stories in questions like these that ultimately serve base for make a purchase. Given the story is not one to persuade but educate. Though the reality to this twits to the fact that marketing stories may be equally as important. 

I heard Hermes does not have a marketing department? What would you say creates the feeling of desirability when marketing is not involved? Perhaps you can share your thoughts in the case of Hermes and also a generalized one - not brand specific. 

BEN—Oh man, I don’t think we have enough space in this email for my take on Hermes. The most magical company rfor me in so many ways. In regards to all this, I heard this great quote forever ago when someone was asked to dwfine what culture is: “Culture is everything you don’t need.” To imply the idea that after your core needs in life are taken care of, everything you do / consume is decided with emotion. And that emotion is driven often by a story. So, while Ben Edgar doesn’t really have any history, the objects often have quite the story behind their conceptualization and creation. So sharing these stories, or some of them at least, is really the goal of Extended Exchange.

Perhaps the most important thing to reflect back on is the support from people who purchased the objects. That sentence doesn't seem to quite do justice to how appreciated they are. This project is so interesting as in many ways it's a fairly selfish pursuit. True design solves a functional problem, while the Ben Edgar approach is really entirely about ticking an emotional box, creating a sense of sensation, abstraction, aesthetics, etc, etc. I love the Jeff Koons quote: "Art is completed by the viewer." I very much find that to be the case with the objects we make. Where does the consumer (don't love that word) fit into things when you're at the earliest stage of creating something?

ROTENDA—That support is truly summarized by the Support Stool which we created almost 2 years ago now. An abstract way to say “thank you for the support”! It maybe also answers perfectly the question of where the consumer fits in the process. Right from the idea. Perhaps it’s a core consideration when creating things meant to be consumed. For their functions or the emotional feeling they serve. 

BEN—Almost forgot about the Support Stool! Good point. It’s a really interesting…I’ve mentioned to myself, to friends, maybe in other interviews that the design/creative side of my life is a compulsion. I can’t really help but do it. The business side, the side that creates a system that then asks of consumers to buy, participate, etc is much harder for me. It’s something I have to stay on top of almost daily to keep on track. And with that, I’m forever grateful for every bit of support this project receives from consumers. What’s the quote? “Success is never owned, it's rented. And the rent is due every day.”

ROTENDA—I was hoping we could end it on a lighter note, but I can’t help to reverse back to your question of “where does the consumer fit into things when you’re at the earliest stage of creating something?” We’ve seen many decisions where certain creations are aimed at a specific group of consumers. My very thought on this, is: who actually decides what type of consumer to target? Is it the responsibility of the Sales department (you can put marketing perhaps in that) or is it the Design department?

BEN—Well, for the Ben Edgar project…such a small / concise team. We effectively “play everything by ear” in regards to design, marketing, sales, advertising, etc. It’s all very intuition driven. As we grow? This is where things may get tricky. So without riffing too much on it all…the goal is that Ben Edgar is forever driven by design. That the design is the advertising. That the design drives the emotion the consumer experiences. That the objects themselves tell any amazing story in their design about their reason for existing. But this goal is similar to the idea of achieving perfection. It’s a never-ending journey.  

BEN—We're doing this same chat 12 months from now. What do you hope we're reflecting on?

ROTENDA—That question got me uncomfortable! [Laughter]! Maybe cause I know what I’m about to say; but, I hope we can reflect on designing our first space. It’s only fair I leave you with the same question. What are you hoping for? 

BEN—Yes! I often view the objects as individual characters in a movie/play etc. Up until this point, there’s never really been a stage for them to act it all out on. I hope we’re much closer to that being a reality in 12 months time. Full speed ahead.