BEN—Trey, welcome to your first Extended Exchange. Where are you right now and what time is it?

TREY–Howdy! I am currently sitting in a PNC bank on the Southside waiting for my banker to send a wire transfer to my talented friends in Spain! It is currently 4:33PM.

BEN—Rotenda, where are you right now and what time is it?

ROTENDA—Yo!! It’s 9:27am in Munich. Catching some air standing outside the balcony - it’s a breezy public holiday. And your ends? 

BEN—I'm in Chicago, it's a bit after 4pm and I'm waiting for it to finally be summer weather.

To jump in, I find it almost unbelievable that this product was launched a bit over 5 years ago now. Feels like a bit of a lifetime ago in regards to how much the object company has changed. Trey, when I sent you the concept the first time to help on the design, specifically the warping, what was your initial reaction to the concept itself? The idea of it being both a play on something so familiar but also using the more abstract concept around bending space-time. I don't think I ever asked you that at the time - we were moving fast [laughter].

TREY–You know me man… Business first! My first thought was who’s making these for us and when, how, what, etc could we do. 

Initially when it came to the design I was thinking too black and white of what was possible (placing a logo on a box that everyone else uses). You quickly followed up with that amazing graphic of the earth's gravitational pull and said it was to live in an ornate gold frame. 

Like all great BEOC products it instantly clicked for me. You’ve found this pocket of taking “perfected” items (jeans, cup, etc) and truly approaching them differently by not following the rules. 

BEN—Also, how many iterations did we do? I seem to remember like 15+ to get the "gravity" effect just right.

TREY—Hold on, I’m re-downlaoding the 10,000s of photos we’ve sent via Apple’s amazingly designed messages app.

We did about 20 different “grids” with different levels and types of warping. Some pushed the boundaries too far and lost the idea of gravity. Eventually you sent over a photo with black circles of varying size (to communicate the gravity). From there it was clear.

Also the numbering system took too many iterations to dial in, which was a hilarious journey in and of itself. 

BEN—Yes, the number system, for as simple as it is…funny how long that took to get perfect.

Rotenda, we didn't know each other at the time when this came out, or rather we were just getting to know each other. Had you seen this product before our first calls?

ROTENDA—Yes! This was one of the very first products that got me peeping into the BEOC design campus. The mat, the steel mug…. The Internet Times hat! We were chatting on this the other day; seeing the re-launch of the mat (of which I carry quite a vivid memory of seeing it for the first time) reminds me of why a bit of humour is a great thing. Seriously, not too serious ha!

BEN—Fast forward to where we are now... A big question I've had for myself is where this thing fits into the more recent objects. The Knock Wallet is a good example. They seem worlds apart, maybe that's a good thing?

TREY—To me, that’s what solidifies the “O” in BEOC. An offering appealing to so many yet being so specific at the same time. Typically a wider offering causes the details to get lost. But the attention to detail is never lost. Each edge, line, photoshoot  is considered.

Side note, A majority of your objects, I view as a poem in object form that you want to communicate to the world. Fun to see as a visuals > words person. 

ROTENDA—Chiming in on this one, Trey summed it up pretty perfectly. I think that’s the luxury within BEOC, being able to create objects that are worlds apart, yet co-existing simultaneously. 

BEN—A topic that has come up a bit lately, specifically in a recent interview with Jony Ive, is the notion that there is some joy missing in both the process of design and then of course the final product that comes from that process. It's something I spend a lot of time thinking about. Even humor, maybe. Do you find this product, at first glance, a humorous or joyful product?

TREY—It’s hilarious to me. During the creation process we were finalizing the warp, but equally sending memes / funny stories between iterations.

At one point we removed the ? marks. It felt lifeless.

“I prefer the question marks, they provide a bit more humor”. 

So many people don’t have the luxury of having joy, laughter, or fun be part of their daily workload. We’ve found a way to work seamlessly while sending detailed documents and dumb videos alike.

BEN—Maybe an even better way to ask that question. Using Virgil's "tourist vs. purist" spectrum, which side of that spectrum does it land on for you? I have thoughts...

TREY—This is definitely a chameleon product to me. Many of the great objects that you, Virgil, the world has created simultaneously speak to both parties at the same time.

At first glance if you’re not a maker, designer, etc it may seem unusable.

But over the last five years, we’ve had the opportunity to look back and post-rationally see how many different ways the mat has been used. An Instagram communication tool, a “culinary” cutting mat, a tool an artist like Adeshola can produce art work with.

It’s ever clear that a tourist can begin to participate in the brand via this product. But, the mat also provides a tool set to the purist, despite being a bit impractical. At the end of the day it is still correct, and works as a cutting mat.

BEN—And…the reality is, most people aren’t using the actual grids on the cutting mat, they’re using it simply as a cutting surface. At least I do.

I hadn't really spent much time thinking about this until this conversation, but this might be the first "tool" object we've ever done. Replacing, for better or worse [laughter], the existing cutting mat on someone's work surface. What is it about having tools, whether you need them or not, in your home or work space that seem to grab creative people so specifically? Myself included. 

TREY—Cap! First one was the ballpoint pen! That was also one of the projects we first worked on together. I think the mat was the second “tool”.

Now more than ever we are trying to express ourselves in more nuanced ways. We aren’t stopping at a concert tee or a Yankees hat. I think the pandemic pushed us to reconsider our surroundings in our own space.

What if the objects I live amongst also communicated my interests, taste, etc? 

Since the launch of the mat it's clear to me that brands from all realms have started to introduce themselves into our physical space. 

ROTENDA—[Laughter] I still need to use the pens! 

BEN—Fair point! I think I’m at over 120 objects released, actually probably more, since inception of this project…hard to remember them all.

Speaking of tools, it makes me want to do an Object Company take on an X-Acto knife. But that product seems so resolved and refined, almost like nothing could really be reimagined. 

BEN—If you could do one in any color beyond this green, which would it be? My vote is a transparent yellow. Actually, maybe transparent light blue.

TREY—I’d be really interested to find a way to “print” an artwork onto it first, and then add the line system. That Jeff Koons LV collection seems relevant. An edition that introduced celestial bodies to it literally may be interesting.

BEN—I look for those Koons LV bags on The Real Real about once a quarter. I could never carry one, but that’s a fascinating idea. I had someone else ask if I could do a gradient cutting mat or a glow-in-the-dark grid. Hmmm!

Also, lastly, funny anecdote, explaining to the factory that it is indeed supposed to have a bunch of question marks on the print file rather than useful, accurate, measurements is always a hilarious moment. I always wonder what they say about it internally. [Laughter]

TREY—Man. So sorry to Phil in Taiwan for the confusion. He was so confused as to why there were so many question marks all over the mat. He made a little mockup asking what each question mark needed to be replaced with. 

And now 5 years later the little “?” Are around the world!

BENJAMIN—To close it out…Trey, Rotenda, which song best matches this product/Extended Exchange series? I’m going with Down By The River by The Dutch Rhythm Steel & Show Band…specifcally from 3:30 on.

ROTENDA—I remember you sharing this one, what a tune! I’ll go with Olympic Girls by Bobby Hughes Combination. Rhythmic from the start, but I find the ending odd - feels to end abruptly. 

TREY—I’m going Vibrate by OutKast, I could enjoy a ride around the moon to this song. The reversed beat has a bit of counter culture to it. Can’t figure out the beat? Throw it in reverse, Terry!