ROTENDA—I thought we kick off this one over a word which has been making its floats in my head, and I am sure it won’t come as a surprise, given our most recent library of texts/photos. The word is “reference”. It’s probably now at that point where I felt we should unlock it a little, and explore how inspiration, context and memory influences the act of creating something.

Perspectives to begin this one are many, but I think It’s only right to begin with the big question itself; What do you think constitutes a “reference”? Taking away the folder of inspirations; Can it be something intangible, like an emotion or a memory?

BEN—I think I’d say those, emotion or a memory, are my preferred things to reference. Maybe ideal is a better word. The object company of course deals in physical items, objects. With that it can be easy to reference other existing physical items as a starting place, or when you’re stuck, feeling a bit uninspired, etc. The issue with this approach is that it often results in a bit of a flat line into the future for innovation, abstraction, new thinking, etc. Everything then becomes an iteration that looks vaguely familiar to something one has already seen before. I suppose there isn’t anything wrong with that… But you and I tend to lean into things that feel exceptional in one way or another. And not just in their quality, material, form, etc but actually feel like…an exception. An exception to what is already known. 

An intangible emotion, something that evokes a memory, or prompts a sensation is perhaps a way to achieve that pursuit of the exception. Even starting with the emotion you’re after first rather than the specific item you’re looking to design. 

And this is like a whole other topic almost…but all of the above is why I really prefer to avoid mood boards. Yes, we absolutely share a ton of images back and forth fairly constantly, but I think we’re not as interested in their literalness as we are in how they make us feel emotionally.

ROTENDA—One thing that’s gets thrown around in some design processes is the question of “originality” in an idea. Whether that is a healthy or unhealthy note, the general intent of it feels to be that of birthing something that feels new. How does the saying go? “There’s nothing new under the sun.” [Laughter]. Do you think every object is a result of its references? 

BEN—It’s interesting looking back on the above answer I just gave in regards to this [Laughter]. I didn’t once mention the word original. I guess the idea of something being an exception could be viewed as a form of originality. 

Zooming out…yeah, I think it’s quite tough to do something truly new. In fact, I’m unsure if it’s even possible. 

I suppose it kind of just goes back to the above note in regards to iteration. Sure, it’s likely impossible to create something truly new, but having everything just be a slight iteration creates that kind of flat line into the future I was mentioning. Which, for me in the world you and I are lucky enough to create in, is really boring. So, while I don’t wake up every morning with the goal of creating something truly original I am indeed looking to avoid things that are deeply unoriginal. 

Actually, that’s a question for you. How much do you care about the notion of originality?

ROTENDA—I have to say, I care to see it as an opportunity to say something - and not for the sake of just saying something/ to provoke or be radical for the sake of it. I think, the things we create are more than the physical form that they carrying when we feel “this is done - this is the final product”. There’s more for me to say about where ideas come from, the case of “perspectives”… seeing things differently. There’s some room for originality in there, which might be in the way you see the world, opposing or challenging ways how something/s have been seen. “what is this object trying to say”. [Laughter] we kind of have so many things having the same conversation, It can be a boring world. 

Emotions are important!!

[Laughter] Wow! I have so much left to say after that! But let’s segway a bit. 

It is fair to imagine that people wonder, including myself sometimes how some of the things you make are created. Less about the working process, but the classic “wow, where did that come from?” What’s one object from the Ben Edgar world you could share and discuss the references behind it?

BEN—I’ve been asked what my inspiration for a specific object is a handful of times and I often really struggle to come up with any sort of elegant answer, if I can come up with one at all [Laughter]. Seriously, I really struggle with it most of the time. 

If I had to pick an example… I’d do the Hotel Cup. 

I was staying in hotels for exceptionally long amounts of time. Months at a time. And there is an emotion or physical sensation of abstraction. Abstraction from your familiar surroundings, you’re removed from a sense of “home”, and I noticed the longer you do it the more you feel even a bit abstract from reality itself. I know that can sound a bit odd, but our species has an innate desire for a sense of place, home, etc. We stopped roaming well over 10,000 years ago. For whatever reason, I actually like this sensation of feeling a bit removed from a sense of home for periods of time and I find hotels are a great way to do that…and they’re often quite a nice/luxurious way to do it too [Laughter]. That said, I found myself wanting just a few familiar items around me when I was in the hotel zone. What was a sample for another object in ceramic, a small vessel, became the hotel cup. This incredibly simple item. Like crazy simple. A small, packable object that was integrated into my daily routine. For coffee in the morning, sparkling water during the day, and perhaps a bit of wine in the evening. What isn’t as simple of course is the reference to the sense of abstraction from reality, or at least your daily routine, that comes along with these extended hotel stays. If I’m honest, I really didn’t expect it to sell all that well. It’s a pretty odd idea even seeing it here typed out… But it seemed to strike a chord in people.

We weren’t working quite as close at that time. Had regular calls, but wasn’t as integrated as it is now. I remember you making some comment about the hotel cup that it seemed to really open up possibilities of a wider world that Ben Edgar objects could be created for. What was your initial reaction / understanding of the Hotel Cup and its reference?

ROTENDA—Hotel Cup! I did not see you bring that one up - at the same time I’m not surprised! 

Its proportions struck me the most. The feeling in hand, the amount you can put of whatever you’re drinking with it, just felt to really reconfigure how I use and see a cup. I use mine in almost a ritualistic way. I feel it’s a perfect nod to what we just acknowledged earlier emotions vs originality. Something we don’t talk enough of, dining! I’d love to see a full set (plates, bowls etc.) to reconfigure a dining experience.

BEN—I completely agree on the ritualistic note. I find myself using it the same way. Even if it’s for a 10-15 seconds, this idea of slowing down, clearing the mind, focusing on enjoying whatever beverage it might hold, etc. And yes… Full set of plates, in some form or shape, en route!

ROTENDA—Let’s talk a little about the very latest object from the Ben Edgar world, the Embossed Socks. We’ve thrown the term “Industrial graphic design” around them. Is this a fair assessment of inspiration/references not being a direct “copy and paste” - but an example of reflecting on principles or processes and questioning their application in an unfamiliar way for unfamiliar places? 

BEN—This is a good one. Good note the phrase “copy and paste” in regards to this whole topic. Though, if I’m being totally honest with myself, the idea of “industrial graphic design” kind of goes against my points above about my preference being to reference emotion over referencing another existing object. Hmmmm. 

The short answer: I’m not a graphic designer really. I don’t create through the lens of graphic design in its true technical form. I’m also not good at it, even when I really try [Laughter].

Longer answer: When I’m required to apply graphics to something, socks in this case, to either give it character or simply to signify it’s a Ben Edgar product…I have to kind of “hack” a solution graphically. In the case of the socks, I wanted something that was a sports sock, which often have graphics on them and often in color. Maybe it’s a sports team’s logo, maybe it’s the logo for a brand, some sort of glyph, etc. I don’t really have any of those as a brand. I also personally don’t really wear a lot of clothing with visible or contrasting graphics, etc. The idea with the socks was something graphic, but monotone. This idea of colorless graphic design. And what I landed at was the idea of texture rather than color. The end result with the socks very much looked like embossing, blind embossing specifically. What a great two word phrase by the way, blind embossing. An embellishment process I personally find very beautiful. Once I saw the sample it almost immediately prompted the idea of a simple but elegant blind embossed paper band around the socks for packaging. The whole final product is really fairly simple in many ways. But…after a bit of texting back and forth with you, it really uncovered itself as my love for industrial design, metal milling, etc as a reference point for graphic design. 

Regarding refernce and inspriation... A kind of understood thing amongst all my friends in the design world in any form, I’m assuming you keep an inspriation folder full of images and notes, yeah? If so, how many years ago did you start it? Can’t believe I’m typing this but mine dates to 2007. Unreal.

ROTENDA—2007! [Laughter] I do keep one! Though more these late years, the notes app is my place. Interesting note, I actually never had an iCloud account for this very reason - I would manually back-up pictures off my iPhone as a way to journal my inspiration. Taking it back, my folder dates 2013!